Shigesato Itoi Visits Arino Kacho’s Challenge Room — Talking 30 Years of Mother — Arino Kacho (Shinya Arino from Yoiko) x Shigesato Itoi

Arino KachoHow was Iwata involved with Mother 2?

ItoiIwata was the Programming Master for Mother 2.

Arino KachoI’ve heard a rumor that Iwata came to you when development hit a dead end and said that if it were him, he’d be able to help you out.

ItoiWell, he wasn’t bossy about it like that. (Laughs) It all started when President Yamauchi suggested that we meet with Iwata. He arranged the meeting.

Arino KachoWere things already at a standstill at that point?

ItoiYeah, we were stuck. We had Iwata take a look at our work, and he said, “If we use what you’ve got now, it’ll take two years to fix. If we start from scratch, we can get this done in six months.” We already had the graphics and other assets, so Iwata was very kind to offer that option.

Arino KachoSo the issue was how the materials were all put together?

ItoiYeah, with the current architecture it would have taken two years to fix. But building it from the ground up would only take about six months.

Arino KachoWow! So how did it go?

ItoiWe did it. Everything came together in six months, and we spent six more months polishing all the details before it went on sale.

Arino KachoIncredible! What was different?

ItoiIt must have been the programming. Iwata was wonderful at splitting up work and finding ways to make efficient progress, so we had more people actively working on different sections at any one moment. It’s like everyone had been using a manual shovel to dig a hole, and then Iwata came and said, “I’ve built a jackhammer for each of you — please use them.” Things went significantly faster when we moved from shovels to jackhammers.

Arino KachoWow!

ItoiIwata was always good at coming up with really helpful methods.

Arino KachoDo you mean he came up with easier ways to do things?

ItoiIt’s not so much that he found easier ways — more that when something was going to be difficult, he would build tools to help us push through it. And when something was even more complicated than that, he would just stay up all night doing it himself.

Arino KachoOh, so Iwata pulled all-nighters himself.

ItoiHe did. When I made the game Shigesato Itoi’s No. 1 Bass Fishing, the movement for casting the fishing line is so clean that someone really good at math would be able to replicate it. That was all programmed by Iwata, who quietly spent his New Year’s break working on it by himself.

Arino KachoSo he didn’t split up the work for that one?

ItoiHe said he’d do that part himself, and told everyone else to keep going on the rest.

Arino KachoI remember now that you also released that bass fishing game. Anyway, did you realize you would be able to pull off making Mother 2 after that first meeting with Iwata?

ItoiEven when we’d hit a dead end, the artists had continued to make graphics, and our team had continued to at least construct events in the game. So the assets themselves kept piling up.

Arino KachoAnd there was no one to implement those assets into the game.

ItoiWe could see we weren’t working in a way that was going to bring the game together. But once Iwata fixed things, everyone cheered back up and continued working. Before Iwata came we weren’t even able to experiment with stuff anymore.

Arino KachoIt is a lot more fun when you’re able to play around with it. Did Iwata say that any of the elements wouldn’t work and suggest alternatives?

ItoiHe was so cool about it all. He said, “Programmers never say no.”

Arino KachoOh! “No” is the first answer you get from entertainers. “Nope, nope, nope.” (Laughs)

ItoiWord got out after he said that, though, and apparently some people were not happy. They complained about what a hard time they had after Iwata went and said that.

Arino KachoHa! Well, normally someone would say no.

ItoiIwata later defended himself, saying “That’s true — what I mean is, when you’ve got someone talking to you about an idea, and they’re really excited about it, a programmer telling them no is going to strip all the good ideas away. So you can’t just turn someone down so flippantly.”

Arino KachoHe really is cool!

ItoiIwata would call something out if it was genuinely impossible. But saying, “Are you okay with doing it this way instead, so we can make it work?” creates so many more options. That attitude, together with his other qualities, made me so happy to work with him.

Arino KachoYou were able to come up with all your ideas because Iwata would make them work somehow.

ItoiRight. I’d find something getting a little boring, so I would force in some interesting element to spruce it up. If something got too silly, I’d rethink the balance and incorporate it later.

Arino KachoI see. So Iwata was still a programmer during the development of Mother 2, and he’d move on to become the president of Nintendo. Did that surprise you?

ItoiNot really. They’d been testing him for a while to see if he could be president. (Laughs)

Arino KachoHa!

ItoiHe’d already become responsible for Nintendo of America and the corporate planning office.

Arino KachoSo he gradually made his way onto the business side.

ItoiAnd Iwata was the kind of person who’d say, “If making me president is going to make things easier for everyone, then sure, I’ll do it.”

Arino KachoWere you in touch with him often?

ItoiAbsolutely. Even when we weren’t working on a game, I met up with him all the time.

Arino KachoOh, really?

ItoiWe were like old war buddies after Mother 2. We’d had our development office in Nintendo’s branch office in Kanda, and the president’s office in that building was like our little nest.

Arino KachoThe president’s office?

ItoiEven though it was the president’s office, President Yamauchi was rarely ever there. There was a bathroom and sofa exclusive to the office, and that sofa ended up being our bed. We called it Hotel President. (Laughs)

Arino KachoWere you like, “Wanna go to Hotel President?” (Laughs)

ItoiIwata would sometimes say “I guess I’ll have to stay in Hotel President tonight.” (Laughs)