It all started when Yuzuru Hanyu said he was a MOTHER 2 fan on a TV program. This brought about the kind of discussion you only dream about. Not in a cliche way, but really and truly an amazing thing. Last December, Yuzuru Hanyu and Shigesato Itoi met in a studio in Sendai and talked about all kinds of things for two hours. We’re pleased to be able to bring you that discussion.
Yuzuru Hanyu
Born in 1994 in Miyagi Prefecture. Began figure skating at 4 years old and became world junior champion at age 14. Later won four consecutive Grand Prix Finals and four consecutive Japan Figure Skating Championships. Also won two gold medals in a row at the Sochi and Pyeongchang Olympics. Became a professional figure skater in July 2022. Currently concentrating on producing and starring in an ice show.
Boyhood／Mirror Neuron／Heaven and Earth／Mr. Saturn／
Ballet／Timeline／Homesick／Universe／Johnny Weir／
Reset／Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami／Picasso／Sprain／
Parallel Universe／Heroic Sword and an Evil Sword／Produce／
Astro Boy／Music／Ness／Fifteen-year-old／
Romeo and Juliet／Goldfish／Nap／Athlete／Millennials／
Elder sister／A Beatles song, XXXterday／
Score／Vinyl／Death／Youngest child／
That／Hip hop／Mozart／Dilemma／Ice Show
- Itoi
- The approach for scoring points for expression versus technique might vary, but they both require practice.
- Hanyu
- They do. So I’ve been thinking lately about how truly difficult figure skating is. There are just too many different things required from an athlete.
- Itoi
- It does seem like a lot. (Laughs)
- Hanyu
- For example, if this were about speed, the race course would have a consistent set-up so you could practice, compare your performance, and concentrate on it. Of course, there are some difficulties unique to competitions with so few elements to it, but you can at least spend five or six hours a day training for that one thing. But with figure skating, there are six types of jumps for example, but free skating segments require the inclusion of at least seven jumps. So at the very least, you have to practice for seven jumps. At that point there’s just too much you have to work with.
- Itoi
- I’m sure.
- Hanyu
- You also need to train for spins, which also come in several different types. Turns come in all kinds of types too, so you can turn towards the right, towards the left, face backwards—all kinds of things. It’s incredibly complicated to train for figure skating, which in itself has come to make me feel like it’s also an art form.
- Itoi
- Not to mention having to synchronize with the music.
- Hanyu
- Yes, if you can. I feel like I can’t quite get it right.
- Itoi
- You mean you can’t match your performance with the music?
- Hanyu
- I do when I’m practicing, but if my figure skating performance were to be treated like one would a street dance like hip hop, or a jazz dance, there’d be a lot of concerns to bring up about it. I think there’s some leeway when it comes to music synchronization in figure skating in particular.
- Itoi
- Oh, I didn’t realize that.
- Hanyu
- To put it simply, figure skating involves skating along the ice at all times. If the music pauses for a brief moment, the skater is still moving.
- Itoi
- Right.
- Hanyu
- If a song has a 4/4 time signature and the song stops briefly on the 16th note, you could technically come to a stop then. But if you add stops across those repeating four-beat measures in time with the music and start introducing dynamics to match it, you won’t be able to figure skate anymore. You can’t just stop with the music like that. If you do want to express your set alongside the music, though, you have to practice for it. You’d have to develop new techniques and think about how to express things so that you could add movement to them. As far as whether it’s necessary or not, I don’t think figure skating goes so far as to require that much.
- Itoi
- That’s an amazing way of looking at it. I can tell you’ve already discovered that on your own.
- Hanyu
- Once you realize that’s the case, you can’t really unsee it. I assume there are people out there who watch for the dance aspect in our performances and feel disappointed, like figure skating doesn’t live up to what they expected. So from that perspective, while people might wonder why we don’t pick out the rhythm and accents from the song, it’s because we can’t.
- Itoi
- Because you’re skating the whole time.
- Hanyu
- Right, because we’re skating the whole time. But when I look at it from their perspective I feel like I want to try it out.
- Itoi
- Which would mean you’re aiming to accomplish everything, really. So in this case it would involve unnecessary things?
- Hanyu
- I suppose I am doing unnecessary things.
- Itoi
- (Laughs)
- Hanyu
- Things like that wouldn’t have resulted in any points when I was in competitions, but now that I’m a professional skater and want the audience watching my shows to see the performance for what it is, I think the bar is in a totally different place.
- Itoi
- Maybe the athletes have more fun when they take a path outside of competitions.
- Hanyu
- You actually won’t even find competitive figure skaters really going that route.
- Itoi
- Is it from a lack of avenues in that direction?
- Hanyu
- More of a lack of awareness.
- Itoi
- Oh, really?
- Hanyu
- Figure skating is probably more like ballet, if you had to compare. Looking at the origins of ballet, there was a live orchestra performing in the pit right in front of the stage. It’s less about the ballerina making sure to match everything just right with the song, and more about the going along with the sound of the orchestral music. Figure skating is similar in that there's a structure to the techniques. There’s a run-up to that point where you jump, you come down, and know a sound will be coming up that you’ll want to try and match. But that aspect isn’t necessarily asked of figure skaters.
- Itoi
- The aspect of matching dance moves to the time of the music.
- Hanyu
- Right. But if I were an audience member, it would be hard to accept that after watching for so long.
- Itoi
- That’s a tough audience, then. Are there people who actually feel like that?
- Hanyu
- Certainly.
- Itoi
- Even comparing it to other dances.
- Hanyu
- Yeah. Not just matching it up to the music, but other aspects as well. For example, if you look at it as a ballerina dancer, you might recognize the way figure skating overlaps with how ballet follows music. The ballet-like movements of figure skating are definitely lacking in some respects, and from a hip-hop dancer’s point of view, figure skaters aren’t very good at keeping up with the rhythm. But that’s not entirely within anyone’s control, and the number of years and hours sunken into training is different than dance. I mentioned before how figure skating is a genre with challenging standards for training. There are so many different things that require your focus. But ballerinas and other dancers spend decades learning rhythm and matching their expressive movements to it. Even if we figure skaters put all our effort into it and practiced it for a year or two, it wouldn't be that easy—and it’d be difficult to perform ballet or hip-hop moves on ice. I think it’s important to understand that there are significant differences when comparing figure skating to other methods of expression.
Boyhood／Mirror Neuron／Heaven and Earth／Mr. Saturn／
Ballet／Timeline／Homesick／Universe／Johnny Weir／
Reset／Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami／Picasso／Sprain／
Parallel Universe／Heroic Sword and an Evil Sword／Produce／
Astro Boy／Music／Ness／Fifteen-year-old／
Romeo and Juliet／Goldfish／Nap／Athlete／Millennials／
Elder sister／A Beatles song, XXXterday／
Score／Vinyl／Death／Youngest child／
That／Hip hop／Mozart／Dilemma／Ice Show
（To be continued）
2024-03-06-WED
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Photography: Toru Yaguchi
Clothing: tk.TAKEO KIKUCHI